Shivsena

Great reasoning, sir. Who do you think is more pragmatic in this way, Raj or Uddhav? Personally I have always found Uddhav's comments and ideas more rational than Raj, who seems more of a rabble-rouser. But as an insider, you could give a greater perspective.    

Dear Sir,

I completely agree with your thought process. Education is the only means of empowerment for anyone. The South Indians have totally embraced the idea and as you mention are doing relatively well. Your suggestion of setting up schools in every taluka is an excellent idea. Somehow I feel our politicians will not implement it as they have a vested interest in having ignorant voters. Also I feel (I could be wrong) that Maharashtrians are lot more cynical than other communities. Maharashtra has produced eminent personalities in a lot of fields and thier successes should get a lot more attention. Would like to hear your comments.

Rahul    

"North Indians do well because Hindi is their mother tongue and is used in all major exams (since it is a ‘national’ language) while South Indians have embraced English completely, which paves way for academic and career excellence"

In hindsight, the (attempt at) forced imposition of Hindi 1965, was a blessing in disguise for south india. They totally embraced English at that point. Because of that, south india as a whole and Tamil Nadu in particular (because there was no Hindi, English became a necessity in Tamil Nadu) has been able to come up in Information and technology by leaps and bounds.

Maharashtra thought that Hindi wil "Closer to them than English" and (erroneously) preferred Hindi to English. As a result, they are not able to compete against the those of Hindi heartland in the "Hindi Play ground" and they are not able to compete with South Indians in the "English pay ground"

I will give one more example

1. What is the population of Maharashtra and what is the population of people whose mother tongue is Marathi
2. What is the population of Tamil Nadu and what is the number of people whose mother tongue is Tami;
3. How many Marathi movies were produced in 2005. How many marathi dailies do you have. how many marathi weeklies do you have
4. How many tamil movies were produced in 2005. How many tamil dailies and how many tamil weeklies
5. How many blogs in Marathi
6. How many blogs in Tamil.

You should know that Tamil Nadu was also supressed by the British. Yet Tamil Nadu has come up because of the reason that Tamilians embraced English whole heartedly. They know only two languages. Tamil, their mother tongue and English, a "foreign" language which they always keep it as the "second" language.

WHere as in Maratha, There are two languages in contention for the "first language" spot    

Well written approach. Actually Shri Prabhodankar Thackeray said this a decade ago (in Marathi) - "Vaachaal tar vaachaal". He had intelligently used the pun in the Marathi word "Vaachaal" which means both 'to read' and 'to survive' . The words meant, you would survive only if you could read. As for the Maharashtrians, we are cursed with an unique trait of non-cooperating with our fellowmen. As such, I don't believe that Shiv Sena is or should be responsible to lead a movement after taking the cue from the words of Shri. Prabhodhankar Thackeray, but it is the responsibility of the Marathi manoos. Then, it really doesn't make a difference who holds the reins - Raj or Uddhav.

Mangesh Desai    

वाचून छान वाट्ल. पण आपण हि सगळी चर्चा मराठीत न करता english मधे करत आहोत यातच बरच काही आल. नाही का?    

'इंग्रजी'. 'english' नव्हे. ;)    

great effort.keep it up.    

I think all the think-tanks have wasted their time in writing about Hindi & English advantages …I don’t know how many of them have actually contributed toward maharashtra & Shiv-sena …We need shiv sena to survive in Mumbai …congress leaders are going mad behind votes and now talking of regularizing slumps up to year 2000 who is going to stop all this? Narayan Rane ? shivsena is not only for the question of marathi unemployment ..One has to remember that shivsena has really contributed well towards development of maharashtra…never the less they were the biggest party when they were in power and even today biggest opposition party in maharashtra … so they are tackling all sort of problems in maharashtra , and I am confident that shivsena shall come again in flying colour under able leadership of uddhav. Even though raj & Rane were too greedy to leave sena , shiv sena has lots of potential workers who are generation next leaders.

Today raj has floated his own party and appealing people not to join him if they are looking for any sort of posts, …..Look who is talking …A person who left shivsena for a post.

Narayan rane has show how to stab some one in the back , shamelessly he joined congress and took oath as a minister on july 26th when Mumbai was submerged and 1000 people died.

All the people who are getting allured by rane should remember that rane has stabbed balasaheb in the back and he would not thick to do that to them as well. He is a greedy man and just after power and money.

Last but not least

UDALE TE KAWALE , RAHILE TE MAVLE    

I think in the last decade or so the competition of politics forced shiv sena to concentrate on issues which were not very relevant to the development of "marathi manus". Most issues, i find have been very defensive. defensive about language, defensive about culture, religion etc all this just to bag votes. I don't speak marathi but have lived in Mumbai thruout and I think there is an unnecessary defensive attitude. A fear that what we have will be lost. And in all this the shiv sainiks have missed out on working on the development of the people by putting efforts on defending the maratha pride. Also i think everyone remembers babasaheb but everyone has forgotten or nto bothered to learn from his life. He worked hard to educate himself against all odds. How many leaders tell this about Babasaheb to their people than just put his picture on the stage? How many leaders have tried to emulate Babasaheb in spirit?

When we learn something new we don't lose what we already know, we add and become bigger. India is progressing because we can handle more than one language. When a maharashtrian enables himself with another language he can connect to two worlds and himself be a port to people of these two worlds. for example - Gaurav Sabnis
http://www.blogger.com/profile/635928    

Very well put. Main problem that is dragging maharashtra down is no doubt politics. I am from a small town in Maharashtra & have seen no progress achieved in last decade which says all. The politicians are busy with filling up their coffers & playing caste games. It makes me feel sad to the core but then this is how things are. Till the people in Maharashtra realize that they have to raise beyond castes & vote for people that can do them good, i do not see any trend reversal for good.    

Hi,
It was great reading this post. Was directed here from Gaurav's blog. Am very pleased to see that someone has seen the aspect that I have been trying to make most Marathi people see.
There will be no progress unless we break down the walls that prevent us from being approachable by other communities.
I am a proud Maharashtrian and was left heart-broken when we were called a failure state in the Financial Review last year. I would definitely want to do all I can so that Maharashtra once again becomes the jewel in the Fiscal crown of India like it was 10 years back.
So far as development efforts go according to me there has to be a greater emphasis on:
1) The quality of education
2) The number of education opportunities
3) Private sector involvement in education and employment
4) Branding and strategic positioning

Look at Bangalore. Karnataka has signed up an MOU with Microsoft allowing the global IT giant to train 20,000 teachers in IT related matters. In return the govt has to provide land, water and electricity. But I say it's a fair deal. Look at how many potential engineers this will generate.

Maharashtra should and must project itself as the next most sought after destination for IT if it has to prosper quickly. I know it sounds like a reactive strategy but it would majorly benefit us to act now, since Bangalore is a strict no-no for most MNCs. For this the govt. could recruit a professional marketing firm or seek professional consulting from abroad.

Come what may, the wealth wave is about to hit Indian shores in the next 5 years. If we are not ready, we should be prepared to lose our spot in the limelight to some other state.    

uddhav, raj both should work together and raise Shivsena. in my view both are serious towards fulfilling balasahebs dream into reality but have different ideas to achieve it. though they go through different ways they should remember they have to reach the same destination. every maharashtrians should give their efforts what balasaheb thinks for maharashtra    

Maratha hav stayed behind becos we are overwhelmed by the gr8 influx of UP BIHAR GUJ RAJ TAMIL. WE R POOR COMPETITORS IN OUR OWN LAND. WE DON TRY HARD AS WE R IN OUR OWN HOME WID NOTHIN 2 LOSE(which also turns out 2 b nothin 2 gain)and ppl frm outside try harder as they r industrious n hardworkin n hv cum wid a certain goal of setting up and makin big.    

Very well thought letter.
I agree with your comments to a large extent.Somehow we Indians love building walls than bridges

Will visit often    

Very impressive blog. Definitely agree with your very novel idea that the regions/communities supporting british rule cashed it well. Here is something I would like to add to this.
I am in US from past 5-6 years. All my colleagues in US were bengalies.. They were most successful people around me but thats because they never helped anyone other than bengali. They never had the politeness to even speak in hindi/enlish around me. Same is seen around Tamil community. Whereas whenever I meet Marathi people here, not only that they are very hesitant to communicate in Marathi, they are not even very familiar with marathi literature. Many of them have trouble reading even one sentence in marathi. The problem is not that 'outsiders' are kicking our butt, but that we ourselves are not ready to accept our identity. Also we lack the helping nature that these other communities seem to nurture. How can we change the mentality of entire community?
Also another note on the success of southern India in Technology... A friend of mine from Hyderabad told me that the plenty of engineering colleges in Andhra can absorb the entire student body appearing in the XII exam!!! Thats why now every other person from south is an Engineer. I dont have to remind you of the dire situation in Maharashtra in this case. So because of plethora of engineers in Andhra, not only the information tech in Banglore have mostly southern Indians but in the US Engineering colleges also south indians strongly dominate in numbers. Why cant we have more Engineering colleges? I did masters in Biochemistry from Bombay Univ but the syllabus was totally outdated. Why cant we have strong basic sciences program. How many students getting masters degree from mumbai are trained enough to get UGC/CSIR scholarships? West Bengal is taking up in basic sciences and is dominating us now. We need total reform of the educational system.. which means no 'vashilyache tattu' at key posts of the universities... Is it too much to ask for? Andhra did it why cant we?    

To Shiv Sena members.

Happy Valentines Day!    

Thanks for a very sensible response to a very emotional issue. I wholeheartedly agree with your stand that positive actions will go a long way in the betterment of the welfare of the maharashtrians, rather than casting vitriolic hatred on the non-maharashtrian communities. After all, typically enterprising migrant communities tend to do better than the native communities.

However, if we filter out the acid from the statements of the "Save Maharashtra" blogger, then one cannot help but see that migrant communities are benefiting at the cost of the native maharashtrian communities. Take for example, admission to engineering and medical colleges. When a seat in a professional education institute goes to a student from a migrant community, however deserving he or she may be, it is one less seat for a maharashtrian student, while it amounts to an additional seat for a student from the home state of the migrant student, given that the migrant student would have competed in his/her native state for that seat. Indeed, there is no dearth of private professional colleges in Maharashtra. But, when seats are sold for money, maharashtrian students coming from a middle class background are easily shut out of a professional career, relegated into lesser levels of education, such as mere graduate degrees in basic sciences. The cycle is then bound to repeat itself.

Yet another issue is the fact that Maharashtra State Board offers education upto SSC in 10 languages, excluding Marathi and English. These are not additional languages being taught as a subject, but rather medium of instruction. These languages include Sindhi, the native language of the people of Sindh, which doesn't even belong to India! It also offers complete education in each and every south indian language and every major north indian language. I have no problem with people wanting to learn their native language, but one has to also realise the schools which teach these vernacular languages are supported, either directly or indirectly through subsidies, by the state government of Maharashtra, funds which could have surely been used for teaching maharashtrian kids. I'm not of the opinion that these schools should be shut, but rather that if you want to teach students in your native language, then you can do it on your own resources. The state of Maharashtra should have no such obligations, especially in cases where the corresponding state does not have a reciprocal treatment. Indeed, the board claims to support the learning of 27 languages.

So, my point is that the state government of maharashtra has to use its resources for the benefit of the maharshtrian people. I have no problems with cultural diversity and am willing to welcome it with open arms, so long as it does not come at any costs to us, the native people of maharashtra.    

Maharashtra is the only state education board to offer many Indian languages for Board Exams. But I understand if the onus is seen to be on that State to subsidise education of the non native language. It will be better if this is done in collaboration with the other state in question, so to teach gujrati in Maharashtra, it can be done with support from the Gujrat government, may be? Am I dreaming too much?    

our nation can do better with skilled Doctors than just native doctors.    

>>>>>> the native language of the people of Sindh, which doesn't even belong to India! <<<<<


Actually, Sindh very much belongs to India. They had to move into India because of the Partition and are still with us.    

>>>>
our nation can do better with skilled Doctors than just native doctors.
<<<<

That's exactly my point. The present situation is such that it is artificially reducing competition in some states while artificially increasing it in Maharashtra. Students in Maharashtra are being asked to jump over higher barriers than those in other states. If you are looking for a truly competitive scenario, with doctors and other professionals being selected based on their merit, then seats from all states should be open for students from all states, so students in Maharashtra can also compete in those states. How many states would be willing to do that? You are asking us to bend over backwards; what kind of a level playing field is this?    

>>>>
Actually, Sindh very much belongs to India. They had to move into India because of the Partition and are still with us.
<<<<

We also have a significant Parsi population, by your logic we should also be teaching in Persian.

We have a minority Jewish population, by your line of reasoning we should be teaching in Hebrew as well.

Again, nothing against any of these minority communities, especially the Sindhi's, but when the Parsi's and the Jews are not being given any special treatment, there is no reason to cajole any other communities as well.    

I beg to differ - Parsis and Jews are minorities who have come here from distant places while Sindhis were part of an undivided India and have remained a part of India, only they had to move here because of the Partition.

I think allowing other languages is not the issue but I agree with you , this 50 % minority rule has to be done away with !!

It is ridiculous when Thakur College gives 50 % reservation for Hindi speaking people when it is a national language of India - and they SS for being parochial !!    

>>>>
I beg to differ - Parsis and Jews are minorities who have come here from distant places while Sindhis were part of an undivided India and have remained a part of India, only they had to move here because of the Partition.
<<<<

Well... Parsi's and Jews didn't come to India after independence; they have been Indians for centuries if not more. Just like the Sindhi's, these communities have no land that they can claim to be their own. Besides, I'm sure there would be other communities (such as Hindus from Baluchistan) who migrated to India, post-partition. We don't have schools for the Baluchi's, do we? Anyways, Sindhi's were just an example I mentioned, and they are a fine community. But, we are digressing from the main issue, which is should we bend over backwards to accomodate communities from outside Maharashtra, while we don't get reciprocal treatment?

The information about Thakur College is new to me and worse than what I thought was happening. I'd think that is illegal, but I won't be surprised if they have found a loophole.    

I agree that to educate grass roots is a good thing for Maharastra but what about those who r educated, good in hindi,good in english. If your thinking can give these people jobs in Railways(u will suggest to have Railway Minister from MS), in PSU , in Police well then "hats of". But the reality is that to get Taxi Driving License in Mumbai u have to be from North.
I really wonder whether swipper requires knowledge of english. In my organisation the hospital staff is 90% south indian. Officer staff r 70% Bengalis. And there is no money req to get job. But even after doing well in interview MS people were not selected and when ShivSena tooked the issue 15 MS got selected and all did well in training among ten div 6 toppers were MS. I agree that no need to cut head of anybody but at the same time I want my marathi brothers to get the right of jobs in State as well as CENTRE. And I am not ShivSainik but I am the son of soil and respect Shivaji,B.R.A, Jotiba, Tilak.    

Uddhav Thackrey is becoming more and more strong leader then before. What u think about his leadership and future of Shivsena. Please read my article and give ur comments...there
My blog id is :-
http://ashishchandorkar.blogspot.com    

Hello Sir,

Nicely written.

I just wanted to clarify my view.You said we should accept english for competing in global level.But I want say that there are countries like Germany,China,France were the education is done in their own national language. It scientifically proven fact that "MatruBhasha" is the best for education. I think english doesn't matter as you must have seen many celebrity like Zinedin Zidan,Dhirubhai Ambani can't speak proper English. Its not about the language.I think there are more no. of Hindi speakers in the world that any other language.

And also I think If people say that marathi people are backward then i think they must check there facts right.and check the people from andhrapradesh,bihar,wb,UP,Gujrat. How much backward they are..I guess maharashtra is 2nd developed state after Punjab...    

महाराष्ट्रात मराठीतच बोला.
जय महाराष्ट्र.    

My mother tongue is a South Indian Language, but I speak Hindi much better than I do my mother tongue. I have lived & worked across the country.

And I just dont get it.

How can any state have more jobs for its original domiciles by preventing other Indians from participating ?

Let me paint an extreme picture. Assume that anti-non-marathi agitation gets to such a fever pitch that every other state person decides to go away rather than risk death or destruction.

That very moment, the biggest engine of maharashtra - mumbai city, would be left no better than a village in Bihar. Which corporation would chose to headquarter itself in a city where no one wants to live & work in ? Which company would want to set up a factory in a place where labour market is distorted due to artificial barriers ?

And you know something ? Mr. Raj Thackeray knows this. He will never take the agitation to a level where he can seriously inhibit immigration into Mumbai. He will time and again ignite a little fire, just enough to win some votes, never enough to make an impact. If he does not know this, he is surprisingly naive, and if he does, he is clearly nothing more than self serving.

And you know what ? Everytime there is an agitation in any state against other state people - anti hindi in tamilnadu, anti bengalis in assam, anti south indians by bal thackeray, and anti north indians by raj, the concept of India as a nation state sounds so rubbish. Merely waving the tricolor in a damned cricket match cannot forge us into unity. Sometimes I think we were never one country anyways, before the british Raj. Maybe we should breakup into a zillion nations of attempted homogenity & stop pretending to be one country.

We dont need a Pakistani RAW to undermine India. A billion Indians are plotting the demise of India everyday. Ably led by the Raj's of the world.    

india is not pakistan and india have no need of talibani

regards
thanks    

there goes a saying in Hindi, daane daane per likha hain, khaanewaale ka naam..I think every Indian should have right to live and work in whichever part of India he wants. We should learn to be Indians first and then Maharashtrians or whatever.